Slobodna Dalmacija, 5. srpnja 2005., str. 12-13.
RAZGOVOR JORGE FUENTES MONZONÍS-VILALLONGA, ŠEF MISIJE OESS-a U HRVATSKOJ:
Srbija i CG će pet godina nakon Hrvatske ući u EU
ŠEST RAZLOGA ZA OSTANAK OESS je ovdje zbog povratka izbjeglica, te zbog reforme pravosuđa, izbornog zakonodavstva i obrazovanja manjina. No, osim toga, postoje još tri razloga naše nazočnosti: reforma medijskog zakonodavstva i policije, te uloga i položaj nevladinih organizacija.
Piše Šenol SELIMOVIĆ
Nazočnost OESS-a u Hrvatskoj znači da ova zemlja još uvijek nije u stanju sama rješavati važna pitanja vlastitog života. Koji su danas razlozi OESS-ova monitoringa u Hrvatskoj? Hrvatska je u posljednjem desetljeću postigla golemi napredak na putu prema zemlji pune demokracije i vladavine prava, no postoje još uvijek neki problemi kao npr. pitanje povratka izbjeglica uključujući obnovu i povrat njihove imovine, zatim reforma pravosuđa u Hrvatskoj i njegovo usklađivanje s europskim standardima, te pitanje političke reforme koje uključuje reformu izbornog zakonodavstva, kao i reformu obrazovanja manjina, što je vrlo delikatna tema.
Najnapredniji u regiji
Postoji još nekoliko razloga naše nazočnosti u Hrvatskoj, iako manje složenih nego prethodna tri. Npr. reforma medijskog zakonodavstva, tu mislimo na problem klevete i činjenicu da se ponekad novinari osuđuju i šalju u zatvor zbog takvih optužbi. Tu je, zatim, reforma policije i konačno pitanje civilnoga društva, odnosno uloge i položaja nevladinih organizacija, zaklada i sl. Uvjeren sam, nakon razgovora s hrvatskim dužnosnicima, da će se napredak na ovim područjima ubrzati, posebice kada otpočnu pregovori o ulasku zemlje u Europsku uniju.
Znači li to što ste rekli da je ovo posljednja godina mandata OESS-a u Hrvatskoj ili će se on opet produljiti? Volio bih da ovo bude posljednja godina, unatoč činjenici što sam u Hrvatsku došao tek prije dva mjeseca. Našalio sam se s premijerom Sanaderom da ako uspijem zatvoriti misiju OESS-a u roku od godinu dana, da mi Vlada osigura još godinu dana plaćenog dopusta u Hrvatskoj. No, šalu na stranu, učinit ću doista sve što je u mojoj moći da pomognem hrvatskim vlastima u ostvarivanju njihovih zadaća. Ali, kad bih bio i najbrži diplomat na svijetu, riješiti sva pitanja koja sam nabrojio i zatvoriti misiju u roku od godinu dana bilo bi uistinu neizvedivo. Napredovanje Hrvatske prema EU zastalo je zbog jednog jedinog slučaja - generala Gotovine kojega hrvatske vlasti ne mogu locirati ni uhititi. Kako ocjenjujete tu situaciju? Međunarodni zakoni i institucije trebaju se poštivati. Zadaća je Haaškog tribunala izvršiti pravdu. Svi znamo koliko je rat na ovim prostorima bio strašan i da je počinjeno toliko loših stvari koje se protive svim civiliziranim standardima i uzusima koje poznajemo. Moramo biti svjesni i činjenice da je ponekad važnije privesti pravdi tri ili četiri prominentnije osobe nego privesti stotinu drugih ljudi koji su također sudjelovali u ratnim nedjelima. Hrvatske su vlasti svjesne ovog problema i vjerujem da kod njih postoji iskrena politička volja da se on nadiđe.
Kombinacija big banga i regate na zapadnom Balkanu
Je li izgledna mogućnost da Hrvatska u sljedećem valu proširenja sama uđe u članstvo EU ili će se to proširenje ipak dogoditi u tzv. balkanskom paketu? U povijesti širenja EU imali smo različite primjere. Grčka je npr. sama ušla u EU, zatim imamo primjer proširenja s dvije zemlje – Španjolskom i Portugalom, pa s tri zemlje - Velikom Britanijom, Irskom i Danskom te na koncu proširenje s čak deset zemalja prošle godine. Kada je riječ o pet zemalja Zapadnog Balkana, mislim da će tu biti riječ o kombinaciji big banga i regate. Ta kombinacija znači da će sve zemlje ove regije biti kandidati za ulazak u EU, one ustvari već jesu kandidati, međutim svaka se od tih zemalja nalazi u različitim razinama spremnosti. Mislim da će Hrvatska kao daleko najnaprednija zemlja u regiji biti prva koja će proći kroz cilj.
Po mom mišljenju Hrvatska bi mogla započeti pregovore ove jeseni, u rujnu ili listopadu, a pregovore bi mogla dovršiti negdje 2009. ili 2010. godine. Druge države bi morale nastaviti s ubrzanim reformama kako bi se taj jaz između prve i posljednje u regati što više smanjio. Znači, ako Hrvatska uđe u EU 2009. godine, Srbija i Crna Gora bi taj cilj mogla ostvariti pet godina kasnije.
Kako na taj proces može utjecati trenutna kriza u EU? Treba priznati da je ovo loš trenutak za Europsku uniju, ali ne bismo trebali biti previše zabrinuti zbog toga jer se takve krizne situacije neprekidno ponavljaju otkada postoji EU. Mislim da svakih deset godina prolazimo kroz razdoblje EUforije, velikog optimizma, a nakon toga slijedi razdoblje europesimizma i određene rezigniranosti. No, taj proces u cjelini ipak bilježi trend napredovanja, a ne zaostajanja.
Raj na zemlji
U Hrvatskoj ste tek oko dva mjeseca. U čemu Vas je ugodno iznenadila, a u čemu možda razočarala ova zemlja s obzirom na informacije i očekivanja koja ste imali prije dolaska? Hrvatska je doista predivna zemlja, usudio bih se reći da je po zemljopisnom položaju i prirodnim ljepotama raj na zemlji. Takvo što se u Europi rijetko gdje može naći. Hrvatska s 4,5 milijuna stanovnika ima godišnje oko deset milijuna turista. Takve proporcije ne bilježe ni najveće turističke sile u Europi. Npr. Španjolska ima 40 milijuna građana, a oko 55 milijuna turista, dok Italija s 60 milijuna građana bilježi godišnje oko 50 milijuna turista. I po gospodarskim pokazateljima Hrvatska se izdvaja tako da je njezin BDP po glavi stanovnika veći čak i od nekih zemalja koje su ušle u članstvo EU. Kada je riječ o stvarima s kojima sam možda razočaran, onda bih jedino mogao ponoviti one probleme s početka razgovora. U cjelini, Hrvatska je ostavila na mene daleko bolji dojam od onoga što sam očekivao prije dolaska. Ne treba smetnuti s uma da je ova zemlja izišla iz ratnih sukoba tek prije deset godina i da pomirba u Hrvatskoj ide dosta brzo i uspješno.
Finska je sudjelovala u ratu prije sto godina, a ljudi tamo gotovo svakodnevno još uvijek govore o tom ratu. Građanski rat u SAD-u dogodio se prije 200 godina, ali je još uvijek tema brojnih aktualnih rasprava u američkom društvu.
Jeste li razgovarali s predstavnicima Srba u Hrvatskoj? Kako ocjenjujete njihov današnji položaj? Razgovarao sam s predstavnicima srpskih stranaka i iz njihovih razmišljanja je razvidno da su tolerancija i pomirba u Hrvatskoj mogući. Postoji nažalost manji broj slučajeva koji kvare tu sliku, ali uzimajući u obzir činjenicu da je rat relativno nedavno završio, smatram da stalno smanjivanje broja slučajeva pokazuje stalan napredak prema zadovoljavajućem rješenju tog problema. Mislim da biti Srbin danas u Hrvatskoj postaje nešto sasvim uobičajeno i da hrvatsko društvo vidno napreduje u smjeru tolerancije i razvijene demokracije.
Do sada je OESS dosta kritički govorio o stanju u hrvatskome sudstvu. Je li ono danas u potpunosti spremno preuzeti suđenja za ratne zločine? Postoji sporazum između OESS-a i Haaškog tribunala prema kojemu bi OESS promatrao one predmete koje bi hrvatsko pravosuđe preuzelo. S druge strane, postoje programi za poboljšanje kapaciteta sveukupnog pravosudnog procesa u Hrvatskoj kako bi se uspješno preuzelo i ovdje provodilo suđenje za ratne zločine. Uvjeren sam da će biti moguće uspješno procesuirati jedan ili nekoliko takvih predmeta pred hrvatskim sudovima. No, mislim da ne treba pretjerivati s brojem tih predmeta jer bi to moglo samo otežati sadašnju situaciju.
Šesti val priključenja
Kako ocjenjujete današnju Srbiju i Crnu Goru i tamošnje reforme za ulazak u EU? U čemu je bitna razlika između današnje Hrvatske i SiCG? Mislim da bi sve zemlje ove regije trebale biti dijelom istoga vala proširenja, ali to ne znači da trebaju istodobno ući u EU. Tako su Bugarska i Rumunjska čiji se ulazak očekuje 2007. bile dijelom petog vala proširenja u kojem je u članstvo ušlo deset zemalja, ali ove dvije zemlje ipak nisu ostvarile članstvo u svibnju 2004. U sljedećem, šestom valu proširenja, Hrvatska će sigurno ući prva, možda će Makedonija biti druga, zatim će uslijediti Srbija i Crna Gora, pa BiH i Albanija. SiCG započela je proces tek u travnju ove godine kada su EU i SiCG potpisale Sporazum o stabilizaciji i pridruživanju (SSP). No, i ova je zemlja od EU dobila jamstvo da u ovoj organizaciji ima mjesta za nju pod uvjetom da se izvrše sve potrebne reforme i ispune svi kriteriji.
Slobodna Dalmacija, 5 July 2005, pp. 12-13.
INTERVIEW JORGE FUENTES MONZONÍS-VILALLONGA, HEAD OF THE OSCE MISSION TO CROATIA:
Serbia and Montenegro will enter the EU five years after Croatia
SIX REASONS TO STAY The OSCE is here due to the return of refugees, judicial reform, electoral legislation and the education of minorities. Apart from those, there exist three more reasons for our presence: reform of media legislation and the police, and the role and position of non-governmental organizations.
By Šenol SELIMOVIĆ
The presence of the OSCE in Croatia means that this country is still not capable of resolving important issues on its own. What are the reasons today for the OSCE monitoring in Croatia? In the course of the last decade, Croatia achieved tremendous progress on its path to becoming a country of complete democracy and the rule of law. There still are however some problems such as the issue of refugee return, including reconstruction and repossession of their property. Then there is judicial reform in Croatia and its harmonization with European standards, as well as the issue of political reform that includes the reform of electoral legislation, and reform of the education of minorities, which is a very delicate topic.
The most developed in the region
There are several other reasons for our presence in Croatia, although these are less complex than the three aforementioned. For example, the reform of media legislation, whereby we refer to the problem of libel and the fact that journalists are sometimes found guilty and sent to prison due to such accusations. Additionally, there is the police reform and, finally, the issue of civil society, that is, the role and position of non-governmental organizations, foundations, etc. I am convinced, following the talks I have had with Croatian officials that progress in these areas will accelerate, especially after the beginning of negotiations on the country’s accession to the European Union.
Does that mean that this year would be the last year of the OSCE mandate to Croatia or is it going to be extended again? I would have liked that this would be the final year, in spite of the fact that I arrived to Croatia only two months ago. I made a joke during my meeting with Prime Minister Sanader that if I manage to close down the OSCE Mission to Croatia in one year, that the Government should provide me with another year of paid leave in Croatia. However, joking aside, I will indeed do everything in my power to assist the Croatian authorities in the accomplishment of their tasks. Still, even if I were the fastest diplomat in the world, it would be truly impossible to resolve all aforementioned issues and close down the Mission within a year.
The advancement of Croatia towards the EU has been delayed because of a single case – General Gotovina, whom the Croatian authorities cannot locate or arrest. How do you assess that situation? International laws and institutions need to be respected. It is the task of the Hague Tribunal to execute justice. We all know how horrible the war in these areas was and that so many atrocious things, contrary to all civilized standards and customs we know of, were committed. We also have to be conscious of the fact that sometimes it is more important to bring to justice three or four persons from among the prominent ones rather than a hundred of others who also participated in the war crimes. The Croatian authorities are aware of this problem and I believe that they posses the sincere political will to overcome it.
Combination of the big bang and regatta in the Western Balkans
Is it a realistic possibility that Croatia will alone become an EU member in the next wave of enlargement, or will that enlargement still take place in the so-called Balkan package? In the history of the EU enlargement we have had different examples. For example, Greece entered the EU alone, then we have the example of enlargement with two countries – Spain and Portugal, then with three countries – Great Britain, Ireland, and Denmark and, eventually, the enlargement with no less than ten countries last year. In the case of five countries from the Western Balkans, I think this will be a combination of the big bang and the regatta. This combination means that all countries of this region will be candidates for EU accession, in fact they are already candidates; however, each one of these countries is at a different stage. I think Croatia, by far the most advanced country in the region, will be the first country to reach that goal. In my opinion, Croatia could start negotiations this fall, in September or October, and the negotiations could be completed sometime in 2009 or 2010. Other countries should accelerate their reforms so that the gap between the first and the last country in the regatta would decrease as much as possible. That means, if Croatia joins the EU in 2009, Serbia and Montenegro could achieve that goal five years later.
How can the current crisis in the EU influence that process? One must admit that this is a bad moment for the European Union, but we should not worry too much about it because such crises have been repeating since the EU was established. I think that every ten years we are going through a period of Europhoria, a big optimism, and after that there is a period of Euro pessimism and a certain resignation. Nevertheless, as a whole, this process is advancing, not deteriorating.
Heaven on Earth
You have been in Croatia for about two months. What were you pleasantly surprised with and what were you perhaps disappointed by in this country, taking into account the information and expectations you had prior to the arrival? Croatia is truly a beautiful country. I dare say that, according to the criteria of its geographical location and natural beauties, it is a heaven on Earth. You can rarely find such a place in Europe. Croatia, with its 4.5 million inhabitants has about ten million tourists annually. Such a proportion cannot be recorded even in the most developed tourist countries in Europe. For example, Spain has 40 million inhabitants and about 55 million tourists, while Italy with 60 million inhabitants has about 50 million tourists annually. Even according to the economic indicators Croatia stands out, so that its GDP per capita is bigger even in comparison with some of the countries that joined the EU. In case of things that I might be disappointed with, then I could simply repeat the problems I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation. As a whole, Croatia has left a much better impression on me from what I had expected before I arrived. One must not forget that the war in this country finished only ten years ago and that reconciliation in Croatia is going on in a quite good and successful manner. Finland participated in a war 100 years ago and people there still talk about that war almost on a daily basis. Civil war in the USA occurred 200 years ago but it still makes a topic of many current discussions in the American society.
Have you talked with Serb representatives in Croatia? How do you assess their present position? I have talked with representatives of Serb parties and it is clear, judging by their opinions, that tolerance and reconciliation are possible in Croatia. There are, unfortunately, a smaller number of cases spoiling that picture but, taking into account the fact that the war ended relatively recently, I consider that the increasingly lower number of remaining cases reflects steady progress toward a satisfactory resolution of the problem. I am of the opinion that to be a Serb today in Croatia is becoming something completely ordinary and that the Croatian society is evidently progressing in the direction of tolerance and developed democracy.
So far, the OSCE has been quite critical about the situation in the Croatian judiciary. Is it completely ready, at this moment, to take over war crime trials? There is an agreement between the OSCE and the Hague Tribunal according to which the OSCE would monitor those cases that would be taken over by the Croatian judiciary. On the other hand, there are programmes for the improvement of capacities of the entire judicial process in Croatia in order to successfully take over and conduct war crime trials here. I am convinced that it will be possible to successfully process one or several such cases before the Croatian courts. However, I consider that one should not overdo it with the number of those cases, because it could only render the present situation more difficult. Sixth wave of enlargement
How do you assess present-day Serbia and Montenegro and their reforms for accession to the EU? What is the essential difference between present-day Croatia and Serbia and Montenegro? I consider that all countries of this region should be a part of the same wave of enlargement, but that does not mean that they have to join the EU at the same time. Thus, Bulgaria and Romania, whose accession is expected in 2007, were a part of the fifth wave of enlargement in which ten countries became EU members, but these two countries still did not manage to become members in May 2004. In the next, sixth wave of enlargement, Croatia will most certainly enter as the first one; maybe Macedonia will be the second, then Serbia and Montenegro, and Bosnia and Herzegovina and Albania. Serbia and Montenegro began the progress only in April this year when the EU and Serbia and Montenegro signed the Stabilisation and Association Agreement (SAA). However, this country also received a guarantee from the EU that there is a place for it in this organization providing that it carries out all necessary reforms and fulfils all criteria.